We meet up with English folk masters Eliza Carthy and Jon Boden to talk about their wonderful new album Glad Christmas Comes (reviewed here).
A new project from two of the biggest names in English folk music, Eliza Carthy and Jon Boden, is an event in itself, but a lovely big Christmas album? That’s a first and something to get excited about. We caught up with Eliza and Jon midway through their Wassail tour, where they perform the songs from Glad Christmas Comes in a mostly duo setting. “Well, for a few of the gigs, we couldn’t restrain ourselves from inviting some guests,” Jon smiles. “So in London we have a brass band, plus Lisa Knapp and Ewan Wardrop, and then in Halifax, we have a brass band and Tim Van Eyken.”
The brass embellishments and added vocals will add depth to the songs, as we hear on the album, but Eliza and Jon were careful to adhere to their original forms to a degree. “They’re all basically duo arrangements that we added extra stuff to,” Jon says. “The only one we had to rework was I Saw Three Ships [Come Sailing In], because that started off with brass, but the rest started with just the two of us, around Eliza’s kitchen table.” “Yes, and Remember Oh Thou Man was a four part arrangement, but that works fine with the two of us,” adds Eliza. “But it’s nice to add other people; the Stanley brothers one [Beautiful Star] is just cake when there’s more of us, because the overlapping vocals are just so beautiful. But again, it works very well with just the two of us, so that’s nice. And it’s cheap!”
Although both Eliza and Jon seem genuinely excited by this project, both in album form and on stage, there was a time when a Christmas album was not something to be considered. We wonder what changed. “It’s partly the fact that Jon asked me, to be honest,” Eliza says. “I’ve got lots of dirt on Eliza, so she had to say yes,” Jon grins. “I had this thing about Christmas albums being artistic death, but I’ve softened,” Eliza continues. “Jon put me in a bowl with loads of sultanas, raisins and cinnamon for six weeks, doused me with rum and stirred me every week until I gave in.” “It’s called rum topped diplomacy,” Jon adds.
With this initial aversion in mind, it’s curious to find out what this pair considers constitutes a good Christmas album. “When we were thinking of material, I was trying to be guided by what I put on in my house on Christmas Day,” Jon says. “It tends to be The Snowman, narrated by Bernard Cribbins, and Maddie Prior & The Carnival Band, their first one [A Tapestry of Carols]. There’s something ritualistic about what I put on and I looked at that and I think they both have a diffused Christmas light coming through, whereas occasionally Sting’s Christmas album might come on and, although you can admire it, it’s not very Christmassy. I wanted this album to be songs that people might want to listen to on Christmas Day.” “There also has to be an element of tragedy,” Eliza continues with a grin. “My artistic death is that tragedy here, so we’ve covered that base!”
The sixteen songs that make up the album are from many sources, as you would expect from two such folk stalwarts, from The Pogues (Fairytale of New York) to eighteenth-century traditional songs. “They come from all over the place,” nods Eliza. “I was given a book of Heywood Sumner songs and the very first one is The Ashen Bowl [the opening song on the album]. I really fancied that straight away and when Jon suggested doing a Christmas album I said I’ve got this. There’s also songs on there that I used to sing with my parents, plus songs that Jon sings during the Sheffield carolling traditions. I’ve also just finished binge-watching Ghosts on the BBC and there’s that beautiful version of In the Bleak Midwinter on there that makes me cry, so I very much wanted to do that.”
“I put together Christmas Bells [on the album as The Good Doctor] a few years ago from Mummers’ plays and with I Saw Three Ships I wanted something upbeat and joyful,” Jon continues. “Also, everyone has responded incredibly well to Star of Bethlehem [titled Beautiful Star on the album], which Norma [Waterson, Eliza’s late mother] suggested and is a really uplifting song. But I also love Remember O Thou Man, which I learned about twenty years ago; I think it’s a fantastic song, so any excuse to do that one is fine.”
Speaking of upbeat and joyful, I Want a Hippopotamus for Christmas is a lot of fun, even if it considers the slightly uglier, more consumer-focused side of Christmas. “My kids love that song, and it’s very well constructed and funny,” Jon says. “It’s also uplifting, even if it satirises what Christmas has become, the demanding of unreasonable gifts and all that. But a big part is hearing songs and thinking we could do something good and different with them. The same can be said of Fairytale of New York.
The Pogues’ beloved Christmas song, featuring a duet between the sadly recently passed Shane MacGowan and Kirsty MacColl, is the best-known piece on the album and one Jon and Eliza were careful to take on. “We thought it would work as a duo song and we could make it interesting and slightly different to the original,” Jon says. The song is a great version that emphasises the underlying melancholy of MacGowan’s lyrics. “I wanted to bring that,” Eliza says. “Although it’s less boisterous, I always felt that those bits Kirsty sings to start with don’t actually give room for just how good those lyrics are and that moment: ‘Cars big as bars/rivers of gold’. They are beautiful lyrics with a real sense of wonder and I didn’t want to rush it for the sake of it being the same as the [original]. My mum was a huge fan of Shane MacGowan; he’s such a master wordsmith.”
“I think it’s such a successful Christmas song because even though in the original you have to listen hard for all that detail, you’re still aware that it’s there,” Jon adds. “It’s what gives it that extra something as a song, compared to the other froth that you get.” “A lot of the Victorian traditions recognise the fact that there is genuine hardship out there too,” Eliza says. “It’s one of the reasons the song works so well; it doesn’t shy away; there’s real pathos there. And a great tune; a massive epic arrangement that works on two instruments. I love that, it makes me very happy.”
Glad Christmas Comes is out now on Hudson Records –https://hudsonrecords.ffm.to/gladchristmascomes
Eliza and Jon’s podcast on song collecting, starting with Heywood Sumner and called Under the Leaves, is available now. Listen below:
Upcoming Tour Dates
8/12 Stoller Hall, Manchester
9/12 Philharmonic, Liverpool
10/12 Pavilion Theatre, Whitby
11/12 Halifax Minster, Halifax
12/12 Cadogan Hall, London
21/12 The Fire Station, Sunderland
22/12 Assembly Roxy, Edinburgh