Rachel Unthank and Paul Smith joined us amid their UK tour back in March to discuss their debut album, Nowhere and Everywhere, which graced the folk scene earlier this year. The self-proclaimed ‘good chatters’ talk to us about live performance, the recording process, their love for storytelling and Paul Smith’s teatime soundtrack.
How has the tour so far been for you?
RU : Well, this is only our fourth night, so it’s a really new experience for both of us. I’m used to having my sister by my side, so it’s quite different, but we’re really enjoying it. It’s good fun.
PS : Absolutely, because we recorded it five years ago, it feels like a real release; we’re just thinking, ‘ah finally’! It’s been so long since we made it, and also, just hearing us sing together; I like the sound of our voices, so it’s kind of a pleasure to sing and be in intimate places with people and share the music- It’s a very nice thing.
It must be nice to finally perform these songs live. The album is embedded with storytelling, so to be on stage telling people’s stories must feel almost like this is what they were intended for.
RU : Definitely, my love of folk song really comes through my love of storytelling and connecting with audiences through stories, so it’s nice to be able to bring them alive. It’s great that we’ve got Faye Macalman with us playing clarinet, she also plays on the album, and Alex Rex are supporting us. Alex Nielson actually played on the album too, so it’s lovely that he can join us and Rory also playing bass; it’s lovely just to be immersed in the middle of that sound and that be part of that storytelling.
PS : And it’s good to tell new stories as well, something like O’ Mary Will You Go on the record; I’d never heard it before, and it didn’t have music that I recognised. It was like just ‘play it to the tune of’ a famous pop song of the day in the late nineteenth century that this guy Richard Watson had written the lyrics to fit. I was like, I’ll just give it a go and try and write my own, but just getting that song out there, it’s just nice to add something as well. Obviously, we’ve got songs that Rachel has known for a while like Lord Bateman she really wanted to do.
RU : Yeah, I always wanted to sing that song, it’s such a beautiful love story, and it felt like we needed an epic ballad. I try and make Paul sing most of the millions of verses though.
PS : It’s been a feat of memory; there’s nowhere to hide on stage. But yeah, we’ve got songs like Robert Kay, which is a song that I wrote; it just feels like I’m telling somebody’s story, and you’ve got to respect that person’s life, but also it feels like it fits in with the other songs and that’s been nice just playing that and people listening. You know, this guy’s story, an almost anonymous person from Stockton and their memory lives on somehow.
And especially because the album is so heavily embedded in the North East, do you feel like you’re getting in touch with your roots and your ancestors?
RU : I think we’re always pretty in touch with our roots because we both live in the North East, I live in Northumberland, and Paul lives in Newcastle, and both our families are from Teesside, so we kind of feel really rooted to the whole of the North East. We also recorded the album in Sunderland, which might sound shocking because we’re from Newcastle!
PS : We’re building bridges!
RU : David Brewis from Field Music recorded it for us; that was really nice; it feels like we could tell stories from all over the North East.
PS : It’s true; we were in Belfast and Dublin over the last couple of nights, and on the mainland, it feels slightly different. Playing the songs after you’ve been on a boat or on a ferry and some of the songs are about travelling across the sea, you feel like, ‘oh we’ve been over an ocean here, and we’re farm from home and we’re telling these stories of the North East’. It’s a bit like, you know, Lisa O’Neill played at The Sage in Gateshead the other night; it was the day before our tour, so neither of us could go, but when you go to someone like Lisa O’Niell’s concert, you’re hearing tales from where she’s from. It’s not exotic as such, but you feel like you’re tapping into something and being told a story from that area, so I felt like we were doing that in Dublin and Belfast the last few nights.
RU : I even told a Geordie joke, and it translated fine.
That’s the beautiful thing about folk music, telling a story from a place and a time.
RU : And I think because the roots of the stories are common to everybody. The thing that connects us all is love and loss and life, and they’re stories about people, mostly ordinary people.
I was thinking the same thing about O’ Mary Will You Go, which could have translated to a story about a couple now arguing over making a decision or going away.
RU : And there’s so much immigration across the world it feels like it’s something that’s always going on somewhere, those kinds of conversations about what to do and where to go and what’s best for you and your family and your future.
When it came to deciding on the stories you were going to use, how would you go about finding them and translating them into music?
RU : Well, we were just getting to know each other personally and musically, so we were coming in with different offerings. And also finding common ground- We sing a Lal Waterson song, and that’s because that was one of the things that we bonded over, a love of The Watersons, and so it was nice to be able to sing that song. Paul came with some of his own songs, and I came with some traditional songs, and he encouraged me to write one as well.
PS : We just tried to find stuff that fitted together. It was very loose; it was like anything, you’re just collating things initially, and then you go, ‘oh we actually have enough; this feels good’. Sometimes that’s a little bit serendipitous really; you don’t have this overarching concept-
RU : Until it all came together.
PS : Yeah, when you’re looking at the final tracklist, you go, okay, we do have an epic ballad there, we’ve got this slow-moving thing, we’ve got this atmospheric thing, we’ve got something a bit faster there. There’s a real breadth of traditional and new songs, What Maks Makems is another example where that poem would have stayed in its anthology and been read by people who are into poetry, but to say let’s see if we can translate it and bring it out and give it a different feel. You want to be respectful to Tom Pickard’s poem, but you also think it has another life. It’s quite humorous as well as fitting in with the idea of shipbuilding being a working class theme which fits in with many folk songs and songs on this record. Yeah, everything seemed to fit, and if something feels natural to us, that’s when it’s right.
RU : And I think it’s interesting what you were saying about it being regional as well because in the folk world, which is where I’m from, people sing in their own accents, but The Unthanks crossed over into other worlds as well, and then it becomes a thing. Paul also sings in his own accent, and I think that’s something that really ties us together.
About your voices, they merge together so nicely, and there are three songs on the album where it’s just your voices with no musical accompaniment. This is quite a bold decision; why did you decide to do this?
RU : A bold decision for Paul, maybe!
PS : I was adamant that it would start with an a capella song. If people came to it wondering, ‘what is this?’ it just throws a gauntlet down to people who aren’t used to unaccompanied songs, and also it just sends the two of us and our voices straight away, and it gives you a kind of thread into the rest of the record when things get added. They form the spine of it; again, that was a conscious decision that you’re never away from the two voices for long, even though there are also instrumental interweaving things with Rachel’s droning harmonium and my guitar and the drums. There’s a kind of balance, but it still always comes back to the two of us harmonising.
RU : We like singing in harmony. I obviously love singing in harmony, and it’s nice to do that with someone new.
Your voices went very well together, but how was it working together for the first time? And what prompted you to do it?
PS : I love Rachel’s voice, and I thought I’d love to sing with Rachel one day. I think that sometimes when I’m listening to somebody, I think it’d be great to work with them, and it’s very rare that anything like that happens, but because we’re both from the North East, I thought maybe it’s not that distant a thing. We met backstage at an Africa Express concert in Middlesbrough many years ago, and we’d been ‘professional musicians’ around the same time and had had careers parallel but very distant, but there were a few moments where we overlapped. There was this concert, and then we saw each other at a Bobby Robson concert, ‘A night to remember’ it was called, it was the Royal Northern Sinfonia people, and we were singing some of his favourite songs, and North East songs and so we had a good chat the as well, and we just got on so it wasn’t too big of a leap-
RU : And we have mutual friends because it’s a small place. We both like to chat; we’re good chatters.
PS : We got to know each other quite quickly. I think if you’re gonna sing together, you’ve got to feel comfortable with each other, especially for what we’re doing. There’s plenty of bands over the years who don’t get along with each other, but they’ve got a good thing going, but for us, we wanted to get into a comfort zone and then do things that are out of our comfort zone because it’s easier if you’re getting on with each other. There was a concert at the Sage in Gateshead (again), and I’d been asked if I wanted to collaborate with someone new, and I said I’m gonna ask Rachel. So yeah, through our mutual friends, we got together and started wondering how to do it.
RU : Figuring it out.
PS : Yeah, it became obvious very soon that our voices went together, and we enjoyed chatting.
RU : And I didn’t realise how into folk music Paul was; it’s not necessarily obvious from his musical career, but then I found out that his favourite guitar player was Martin Carthy, so we had a lot to talk about!
How has it felt for you Paul, coming from what people know you for to something completely different?
PS : It feels good; it feels like a natural progression for me. There’s a part of me that just wants to get on with good things and just do my own thing, whatever that might be, there’s a part of me that doesn’t care. But then part of me really does care, and I want people to hear this, and I want people to love it, but I also understand that not everyone likes the same music as me and has the divergent tastes that I have.
RU : He has a very large record collection, is all I have to say; there’s a lot of vinyl in that house.
PS : I listen to music when I go to sleep, when I get up. When I’m having tea, my daughter picks; she loves this Alasdair Roberts record which has got a rainbow spine, so we listen to a lot of Alasdair Roberts at our teatime…
…But yeah, obviously, I’m a bit nervous; I know that, for example, tonight, there’ll be a lot of people who know Rachel and know music from a folk background, but I’m confident in the music. I love the music, so that gives me confidence.
RU : Well, my dad, when he listened, basically just went on about what a great singer you are, so you’ve converted one folky. I was like, what about me, Dad?
Finally, any plans for the future, independently or together, or are you just taking it as it comes?
PS : Taking it as it comes, when this tour’s out the way, it’ll clear the decks. This one has been such a long gestation period; even if we did something in a year’s time or two years’ time, it doesn’t feel like it wouldn’t happen now; it feels like we can leave it and make albums with our other bands and do other things and still… I feel strongly about the album and the music that we make, and the way that we sound together that if Rachel wants to do more, it will happen. Logistical things will inevitably get in the way because we’re both workaholics, and we love making music.
RU : I don’t feel like I’m a workaholic, but I work all the time! There’s lots of Unthanks projects in the offing, so that’s exciting too, but it is lovely to be able to make time and space for this project, and I’ve really enjoyed being on the road with Paul; I’m just looking forward to all the rest of the gigs!
Order Nowhere And Everywhere via: Norman Records | Picadilly Records
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